The Week In Ink: November 18, 2009

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Sometimes it’s hard to tell when you’ve got a weight problem, but I’m pretty sure that if the sound of someone kicking you in the face ends with a double-F, you should probably look into long walks and a personal trainer.

 

 

And with two boots to the face of the morbidly obese, it’s time for another round of the Internet’s Most Two-Footed Comics Reviews! Here’s what I picked up this week…

 

 

…and here’s what I thought of them!

 

Adventure Comics #4: This is without question one of the funniest comics I’ve read all year.

I was thoroughly entertained by the final fate of Superboy Prime, who was fated to live out the rest of his days in the hellish existence of the Message Board Troll at the end of Legion of Three Worlds, and while I was pretty sure that was the last time I ever needed to see that guy, the fact that this issue opens with Prime being just as displeased as I was at finding himself in one of my comics did a lot to set the tone. And it just gets better from there, which is honestly something I never thought I’d say about a comic where Earth-3 Alexander Luthor comes back to life as a zombie and fights Superboy Prime.

What it all comes down to is that there’s a self-awareness to this story that’s largely absent in Geoff Johns’s other work. Despite a few token attempts to be serious–which generally involve casting Prime as that kid from the Twilight Zone who sent people to the cornfield for listening to Perry Como, which is itself a concept that is goofy as all hell–this story is essentially functioning as a parody of Blackest Night by the guy who is actually writing it. Through Prime, Johns not only points out the ludicrous aspects of the crossover–Prime knocking over short boxes as he yells an explanation of what the Black Lanterns are, which is interrupted by Zombie Luthor because he finds the DC Comics message boards more interesting than another infodump–but even skewers his own turgid prose by having Prime offer commentary on his own battle cries. Luthor’s even got the same kind of “You’re the fastest man alive, Barry–but you’re always slowing down!!” speech that Hal Jordan gives in BN #3, but geared towards explicitly calling out inside jokes, which–for me at least–makes it a bigger laugh than even Luthor’s summation of the Internet.

Admittedly, that might all be attributed to co-writer Sterling Gates, but given that it’s the same kind of tongue-in-cheek fun–and there’s a word you can’t apply to too many Johns books–that capped off LO3W, I’m inclined to believe that it’s both of them, having a laugh at their own expense. And I’m laughing right along with ’em.

 

Amazing Spider-Man #612: A couple of sharp-eyed ISB readers have noticed that I haven’t been picking up Spider-Man for the past month or so, my reasoning being that a) Clone Saga stuff–even when it involves Kaine, the living embodiment of Marvel’s excess circa 1994 that a 12 year-old C. Sims thought was the tops–just does absolutely nothing for me, and b) as I may have mentioned before, I’m pretty much done with Joe Kelly. This week, then, was Spidey’s big return to my stack with the Dan Slott-scripted Dark Reign tie-in and the start of Mark Waid and Paul Azaceta’s “The Gauntlet,” and I’ve got to say that I was a little let down.

Admittedly, a lot of that’s my fault: I’d assumed that “Gauntlet” was going to be just a straight-up throwdown with Spider-Man’s villains, and it’s not. Of course, I assumed this because that’s the impression I got from the promotion for it, and the fact that it’s, y’know, called “The Gauntlet” which tends to either mean a rapid series of increasingly high-stakes fights or a wizard insisting that he needs food badly. Instead, it’s the type of solid (if run-of-the-mill) super-hero story with a clever twist that Mark Waid excels at.

And that’s the problem: The twist–Electro raging against the government bailout by promising to give (groan) “power to the people”–is not just a little too cute for its own good, it’s a story that already feels dated. That might just be a side-effect of the fact that it takes place during a summer heat wave when it was released smack in the middle of November (as opposed to last year’s “Sometimes it Snows in April,” which was actually released in April), but something about the setting of Electro’s grassroots “shock-ins” feels old hat even when you can tie it to stuff like the Douchebagger Teabagger protests from two months ago. It might just be media fatigue on my part, but it feels like Waid & Co. might as well have just stamped “SEPTEMBER 2009” on the cover and included a single of “Poker Face.”

As for the backup, well, I’ve already gone into my feelings about Joe Kelly’s Spider-Man work on the ISB before, and this thing didn’t do much to change that. Which is a shame, as it’s Kelly reuniting with JM Ken Niimura, with whom he collaborated on I Kill Giants, a book that I actually did enjoy. Niimura’s art is fantastic, and it’s exactly the type of thing I’d like to see more of, especially on the Spider-Man books, but Kelly’s script just turns me right off with its clumsy injection of melodrama into what is essentially a story about how Spider-Man and the Black Cat getting it on constantly.

Throw in the Dark Reign special that opens with a page where Adam Kubert decided to give Spidey two Christmas geese for thighs, and it’s not exactly the return to form I was hoping for.

 

Conan the Cimmerian #16: I’ve had my criticisms of Tim Truman’s Conan the Cimmerian before. I generally like his work, but since the new series started, I’ve felt like he’s devoted a lot of time to flashbacks and side stories about people who Are Not Conan, and that’s not why I’m putting my money down.

But this issue opens with Conan sucker-punching a velociraptor.

All is forgiven.

 

ISB BEST OF THE WEEK

 

 

Punisher #11: Last week, I was talking to Chad Bowers, my writing partner and the creator of Monster Plus, and he told me: “Chris, a comic is coming out where the Punisher’s dismembered body gets hauled off by the Man-Thing so they can stitch him up into a Frankenstein’s Monster. Truly, the Action Age of Comics is upon us.”

It shouldn’t come as much of a surprise to anybody that I’ve been looking forward to this one since it was announced, as my love of the High Concept is pretty well-known by now, but even so, I wasn’t prepared for the first issue to be quite this good. It is without question the best issue Remender’s done with the title, upping his game to a level that I’ve come to expect from guys like Jason Aaron with the way that he’s throwing concept after concept at the reader and hitting with each one. It’s not just the Punisher as a Frankenstein’s monster, but the idea of the Legion of Monsters returning to protect Monster Island against a gang of renegade super-samurai monster hunters. Everything about it is so gloriously over the top that you can’t help but see the fun Remender and artist Tony Moore are having with it, coming through with an “isn’t this awesome?” sort of vibe rather than one that’s self-congratulatory.

As for Moore’s art, most readers are probably already well-acquainted with him from his six-issue run with Robert Kirkman on The Walking Dead [Note: I’d originally thought he’d done the whole thing, but I was wrong. Sorry, Charlie Adlard!], and while his work here definitely draws on the strengths he built there, with expressive faces and a knack for grotesques, this is the best of his that I’ve ever seen. Of course, that might have a lot do to with the fact that he’s drawing full-color shots of things like a sheepish Orrgo the Unconquerable, who I would read about all day long.

As excited as I’ve been, the true test of a high concept is how it fares under the actual execution, and with this one, the team behind it is really living up to the potential. It’s a hoot, and I can’t wait for more.

 

Spider-Man 1602 #2: And speaking of high concepts done right, here’s a story where a Colonial-era Spider-Man fights pirates.

I went on and on about my affection for Jeff Parker and how pleasantly surprised I was by this book when the first issue came out, and as all that holds true here–Jeff Parker’s still awesome, Ramon Rosanas is still awesome, the book’s still an incredible amount of fun–I’ll just add this one note: The sound of Ye Olde Spider-Man’s webs is “Thwippe.” That alone is worth four bucks to me.

 

 

And that’s the week! As always, any questions or concerns can be left in the comments section below, so if you want to discuss how awesome Jason Aaron’s dialogue is in Wolverine: Weapon X–“He’s… he’s got chainsaws for hands.” “I know, isn’t he just amazing?”–feel free to chime in!

101 thoughts on “The Week In Ink: November 18, 2009”

  1. I’m pretty conflicted when it comes to this Franken-Castle story. Sure, the issue is well executed, but the Punisher is pretty much the last character that needs a gimmick like this. Every other time they’ve tried to make him something other than a dude shooting the hell out of other dudes, it’s been awful. I realize that with Punisher MAX relaunched, this is the right time to try something different, but I don’t know. I was totally cool with Daken murdering him – got get the kid over somehow – but this…eh. As a What If? or a self-contained mini, it’d be fun, but I was pretty into Punisher going after Norman and the Cabal.

  3. You know what’s surprisingly not terrible? X-Men: Legacy. I mean, the writing, plotting, all the stuff with words is boring crap, but the art is muy fantastico. I haven’t appreciated Daniel Acuna before now, but he’s making a fairly dull story involving characters I don’t care about at all readable.

  4. Was I the only one somewhat dissapointed by “Realm of Kings One-Shot”? I mean it was a nice enough one-off and introduced a Marvel alt-verse that might be even more screwed than the Zombies one. But it felt more like a lost issue of Exiles than what I think is meant as the set-up for the next Cosmic Marvel uber-plot…

    Don’t get me wrong Marvel Super Heroes meets Call of Cthulu is good high-concept, but it didn’t really feel like it was going anywhere for Realm of Kings…

  5. Is it just me, or is contemporary “High Concept” a lot like “Silver Age Goofiness,” but with a darker color palette and a lack of that charming naïveté?

    Not to rain on the parade. I mean, it’s certainly not the 60s, so I guess I should be thankful for what we’re given.

    Still, I have to imagine that Colonial Spiderman and Superhero Zombies would have been a lot more FUN in the Silver Age.

  6. Tony Moore hasn’t been on Walking Dead for an insanely long run as far I can remember. He was on it for the first 7 or so issues (might be more but it certainly wasn’t anything that can be described as insanely long) and then they switched artists.

  8. Face-kicking details are in the alt-text of the image.

    Well, I bought Franken-Castle, mostly at your prompting (and a final push from the “Next Month” pic at the back)… and I’m not disappointed. I’m not entirely sure how we get back to Frank’s status quo without making me groan (more magic melanin perhaps?) but I’m enjoying the ride so far.

  10. It’s Charlie Adlard that’s been doing Walking Dead for an insanely long time – not Moore who, as mentioned above, did 6 issues and then I think just did the greyscale “colouring”.

  11. It’s fucking ridiculous how much flack FrankenCastle is getting from people NOT ACTUALLY READING THE BOOK.

    And was it the last Spidey issue that had Eric Canete on it? That guy is awesome.

  12. FrankenCastle vs. FrankenBerry: THE BATTLE FOR BREAKFAST!

    One monster makes your milk taste like strawberries! The other makes it taste like revenge! WHO WILL LIVE? WHO WILL DIE? WHO WILL BE ENRICHED WITH RIBOFLAVIN?

    Make your mornings more exciting with not one but TWO shambling mockeries of a nutritious breakfast!

    (My apologies. I’ll go away now.)

  13. “Was I the only one somewhat dissapointed by “Realm of Kings One-Shot”? I mean it was a nice enough one-off and introduced a Marvel alt-verse that might be even more screwed than the Zombies one. But it felt more like a lost issue of Exiles than what I think is meant as the set-up for the next Cosmic Marvel uber-plot…”

    I liked it mostly because of all the possibility that comes with something like the Fault, D&A have called it a gaping chest wound in the Universe that all manner of things can spring out from

    Its basically a means to bring any and all Spacefaring characters from Marvels yesteryear back into Cosmic marvel and kicking ass

    And being on this site I think the implications of that might be focused toward the hope of one character.

  18. I’m still trying to figure out if Chris enjoying Frankencastle and calling it “high concept” is a joke…

    That said, I’ve only read the “preview” at the back of the abysmal Dark Reign:The List-The Punisher #1 (come on… I was expeciting a Lauren K Framingham response to that title alone…) which was BADLY in need of an editor and just looked stupid. I will either thumb through at a shop or maybe download the issue to check it out, but I’m pretty sure Marvel Comics are officially off my budget with this latest bowel movement on their part.

  20. I’m still trying to figure out if Chris enjoying Frankencastle and calling it “high concept” is a joke…

    A joke? “The Punisher turns into Frankenstein” is textbook high concept. No nuance to worry about; that one sentence tells you everything you need to know about the book, which is what “high concept” means.

    As for enjoying it…I’m pretty sure that somebody who’s been fairly upfront about the need for Marvel’s most “realistic” superhero to punch more bears isn’t too worried about stories not taking themselves seriously enough.

  21. I LOVED both Frankencastle and the Realm of Kings ‘Quasar vs. Eldritch Avengers’ comics. It’s nice to see the cosmic and supernatural characters being used so well just now (see also the Jason Aaron Ghost Riders comic). Not too fussed about what’s going on with the more straight-up superhero stuff, though.

    Also, Quasar’s primal high-terror reaction to the Cthulhu stuff is excellent. All too often, when there’s Lovecraftian stuff in comics, it’s just big slurky monsters, minus the fear.

    Comics! I like when they are good.

  22. agreed on Adventure, people were looking at me funny on the bus from my reactions reading the issue

    same goes with Punisher

  23. It’s Charlie Adlard that’s been doing Walking Dead for an insanely long time – not Moore who, as mentioned above, did 6 issues and then I think just did the greyscale “colouring”.

    I believe Mr. Sims referring to Tony Moore’s run on The Walking Dead as insanely long is what we’d call joke.

    No, I actually thought Moore had been doing it for the whole run, but it looks like I was wr–

    I was wrrrrrrr–

    I was mistaken.

  24. In this case, the haters are incorrect: Franken-Castle is, if not quite the best thing ever, certainly in the running.

    If they had just given us the Punisher as a Frankenstein, dayenu.

    If they just just given us the Punisher leading a team consisting of Man-Thing, Werewolf By Night and Morbius, dayenu.

    But no, they had to go and do both.

  25. Call me old fashioned, but I just don’t have any desire to read a comic about a Frankenstein Punisher. To me, it’s as off-base as Angel Punisher, or Electric Superman. As a one-off What If, maybe, but in the core Marvel Universe? I don’t see the appeal.

    But hey, I bought the new Punisher MAX instead, and I couldn’t be happier with that…so to each their own, I suppose.

  26. The difference between Frankenfrank and Angel Punisher or Red/Blue Supes is that nobody thinks this is really a BOLD NEW DIRECTION THAT WILL CHANGE THE FACE OF THE CHARACTER, rather than an excuse to write comics about Frankenstein Punisher leading the MZ4 version of the Midnight Sons that will without any shadow of a doubt be undone with no second thought once it’s time for “serious” stories again. It might as well be a What If? title, it’s just under the main imprint because that’s what Remender is signed on to write.

  27. Call me old fashioned, but I just don’t have any desire to read a comic about a Frankenstein Punisher. To me, it’s as off-base as Angel Punisher, or Electric Superman. As a one-off What If, maybe, but in the core Marvel Universe? I don’t see the appeal.

    What exactly about the core Marvel Universe doesn’t seem like a character being turned into a Frankenstein’s monster would fit right in? Is it the presence of serious characters like Hypno Hustler and Slapstick? Moving stories like Spider-Man fighting his clone who can melt people’s faces with his spider-powers? Maybe the fact that Thor spent two issues as a frog is what makes this diversion so unthinkable.

  28. Personally, I was a bit skeptical about the FrankenCastle idea, though after reading this and other really positive reviews I’ll probably pick this up, but I was more upset that Daken “killed” Frank.

    Then again, I don’t like Daken much.

  30. hey Sims, what’s your opinion on the Waid’s “justification” for Plutonian’s turn to the dark side?

    also are you gonna be getting Incorruptible?

  31. Yeah, I miss the days when The Walking Dead looked more like For Better or For Worse vs. the zombie apocalypse.

    Juuuuuuust grim-and-gritty enough.

  32. So what’s the Punisher gonna do to Daken when they meet again? Do clones have balls? Cuz I figure he’s gonna do something to his nutsack.

  33. Seems like the concern you expressed on Twitter about making a teabagger/douchebagger was misplaced in the face of all these Frankencastle haters. Somebody should alert Glenn Beck.

  36. What exactly about the core Marvel Universe doesn’t seem like a character being turned into a Frankenstein’s monster would fit right in? Is it the presence of serious characters like Hypno Hustler and Slapstick? Moving stories like Spider-Man fighting his clone who can melt people’s faces with his spider-powers? Maybe the fact that Thor spent two issues as a frog is what makes this diversion so unthinkable.
    The internet, where the race to condescend always takes priority over taking a single damn second to consider a position you don’t initially agree with.

    he didn’t say that he objects to any character at all in the Marvel U getting Frankensteined. It is not just any character he’s talking about, it’s the Punisher. The Punisher has a niche in the core Marvel universe, and Frankencastle ain’t it. You know this, but you prefer to mock a straw man.

  37. Daken was made the old fashion way

    Molded out of clay and given life by the goddess Athena?

    Ewwwwww!

  38. The Punisher has a niche in the core Marvel universe, and Frankencastle ain’t it. You know this, but you prefer to mock a straw man.

    You’re an idiot and here’s why.

    Amazing Spider-Man #129, 1974: The Punisher works for the Jackal, a furry green scientist who specializes in cloning.

    Punisher #23, 1989: Punisher goes to a ninja training camp in Kansas. There is a dog named Tanto, whose owner says “my dog is a ninja too.”

    Punisher #31, 1990: Punisher fights “Charlie Samson,” a stand-in for Charles Manson, by pretending to be a biker gang meth cook.

    Punisher #35, 1990: Punisher fights Jigsaw in a story where Jigsaw has teamed up with the actual, literal Devil.

    Punisher #48, 1991: Punisher goes to Iraq, where he is tied to a giant cannon. He frees himself with a “diamond manicure” then pauses to paint his logo on his own chest with axle grease.

    Punisher #59, 1992: Punisher undergoes experimental surgery, resulting in a new appearance as a black man. He teams up with Luke Cage, who constantly quotes Flavor Flav.

    Punisher #64, 1992: Eurohit, wherein Punisher teams up with Tarantula, the Spider-Man villain with pointy shoes. They fight Batroc the Leaper and a guy with a chaingun for an arm.

    Punisher War Journal #19, 1990: Punisher is revealed to be afraid of water.

    Punisher War Journal #73, 1994: Lady Punisher.

    Punisher #2, 2001: Punisher “teams up” with Spider-Man to fight a gigantic transvestite who survived being smothered by a morbidly obese man and decapitated.

    Punisher #17, 2002: Punisher teams up with Wolverine to fight vertically challenged mobsters; runs Wolverine over with a steamroller.

    Punisher War Journal #1, 2007: Punisher shoots Stilt-Man in the dick with a rocket launcher.

    Punisher War Journal #12, 2007: Punisher fights the Hulk. Once again, that’s The Punisher Fights The Hulk.

    Punisher #6, 2009: Punisher fights a bunch of dead villains that have been brought back to life by the power of Dormammu.

    In closing, you can pretend that the Punisher has always been a super-realistic hard-nosed noirish vigilante, and you can even pretend that Garth Ennis (who defined the character in an eight year-run that included a mobster being nearly killed by the Punisher and then being actually killed by a giant octopus that ony he believed was real, and also wrote a story where the Punisher made the Hulk eat a bunch of plastic explosives) never did anything goofy or strange with the character. But you’re wrong. And that’s why you’re an idiot.

  39. Not to mention the fact that Punisher’s teamed up with fucking Ghost Rider to basically fight the son of the devil.

  41. Not to mention the time he flew an Apache helicopter to Monster Island, but decided to turn around when he saw the new and old Fantastic Fours cleaning house.

  42. I’m kind of glad that Punisher: G Force got left out of the original comic, because that sounds extra special. I really kind of want to read that one.

    I would start looking for the back issues tomorrow morning if there was a space chimp involved.

  44. To be fair, the Punisher was aided by a Venom-like symbonite armor and a gun that shoots swords when he takes on the Hulk…so pretty realistic.

  45. In closing, you can pretend that the Punisher has always been a super-realistic hard-nosed noirish vigilante, and you can even pretend that Garth Ennis (who defined the character in an eight year-run that included a mobster being nearly killed by the Punisher and then being actually killed by a giant octopus that ony he believed was real, and also wrote a story where the Punisher made the Hulk eat a bunch of plastic explosives) never did anything goofy or strange with the character. But you’re wrong.

    Where did I say anything like this “pretending” that you attribute to me? Nowhere. In case there’s anyone out there paying attention and free of the group-think around here: I don’t think you’ll find it too hard to reconcile my original statement about Frankencastle with this nonsense that Chris says I’m “pretending”.

    A concession that “wrong for the character” is different from “wrong for the Marvel U”, even if you don’t agree that it’s wrong for the character, would have been a refreshing change of pace from the usual internet ego-saving personal attacks, but at least I got you to indirectly nudge away from your previous straw man. Judging from your repetition of “idiot” and your refusal to directly disavow your previous straw man, and now this new straw man you attribute to me, I can see that further attempts at rational discussion would be pointless. The internet has taught you well: Never listen when you can condescend!

  46. To be fair, the Punisher was aided by a Venom-like symbonite armor and a gun that shoots swords when he takes on the Hulk…so pretty realistic.

    To be fair to who? Certainly not me. I didn’t say shit about realism. Do you value joining the dog-pile more than you value exercising critical thought?

  49. I was just pointing out why Chris shouldn’t seem so incredulous that the Punisher could take on the Hulk. Matt Fraction, in his infinite wisdom, gave the guy a gun that shoots swords. Fuck gamma radiation, dude’s got a gun THAT SHOOTS SWORDS!

    I’m sorry you decided to attack a straw man (if you had any balls you’d attack a Tin Man, mother fucker has an axe!) instead of realize how awesome the Punisher using a gun that shoots swords is.

    Moral of the story: Punisher could be the fucking Tooth Fairy as long as he has a gun that shoots swords.

  50. A book has Man-Thing catching a Punisher boot square in the face and Sims loves it? Unthinkable.

  51. Jakob, four of the five posts before yours were buying into or at least indirectly propping up Sims’ straw man, and I read your post as more of the same, but it wasn’t. My apologies.

  52. “Straw man.”

    “Group-think.”

    Shifting the goalposts.

    Posting two more comments after saying to continue would be pointless.

    C’mon man, one more and I’ll have Commenter Idiot Bingo.

  55. “Straw man.”

    “Group-think.”

    Shifting the goalposts.

    Posting two more comments after saying to continue would be pointless.

    C’mon man, one more and I’ll have Commenter Idiot Bingo.

    Priceless. I didn’t quite say that, did I? And, it was directed at just one individual, was it not? These are, of course, questions meant to amuse myself and whatever non-sycophantic readers Sims may have. It’s clear that Sims is incapable of conceding fuck-all, and I sure as hell am not posting this with the expectation that Sims will respond with integrity. No, not for Sims’ benefit am I pointing out that this is his third consecutive response to me where he simply refuses to understand plain English. I’m pointing it out for the comedy value. The more you point out that he doesn’t listen, the less he listens! He went from willing to discard a straw man (without apology, but still, credit where it’s due), to, well, this sad state he finds himself in.

    Now he’s just baiting me to have sport with him and he can pretend that it’s me going back on my word. Something for everyone.

  56. STOP SAYING STRAW MAN.
    Have you a better phrase for when a position is falsely attributed to you?

    How about “irony”? Do you a have problem with the word “irony”? Because, if you look closely, you will see Mr. Integrity mocking my use of “straw man” and “group-think”, and then what does the very next post after that do?

  58. It hurts my feelings that I come here and say bombastic shit pretty much on the reg and nobody ever decides to start an Internet Fight! on my account.

    (Frankencastle seems like a mega lame idea but whatever I’m not in to that kind of thing ever. It kind of bugs me that the stapling together of two well worn tropes is labeled as “high concept” but that’s a purely semantic argument.)

  60. It hurts my feelings that I come here and say bombastic shit pretty much on the reg and nobody ever decides to start an Internet Fight! on my account.

    You’ve been doing it wrong. Don’t go for bombastic, simply correct our host on a simple matter and let his deep dishonesty and his pea-brained ass-kissers take it from there.

    Believe me, I wasn’t expecting that pointing out that “wrong for the character” and “wrong for the Marvel universe” are not the same thing, regardless of whether or not you think either one applies, would result in nothing but dishonesty about my own words from anyone and everyone looking to pile on, but that’s the way this group rolls, when they aren’t exploding heads or talking about the most awsome thing ever or playing it well, sir. But don’t forget, there’s no group-think here and they definitely don’t take kindly to repeated phrases.

    So challenge Sims when he throws a straw man out there (apparently he doesn’t stop at just one when he gets rolling, so there should be plenty of fuel), and you’ll not only be treated to his sad attempts to distract from the straw man via personal attacks, you’ll get his cute little mob taking thier own ignorant and yet somehow self-congratulatory potshots.

    That’s a sure, albeit surprising, recipe for the attention you seek.

  62. I I I — I don’t…

    man.

    The Internet.

    Despite being a big Chris Sims, Inc. fan, I don’t think I’ve ever commented on your blog, sir, but man at 4:13 in the morning I am moved to just —

    man.

    The Internet is a weird place. Chris, I guess I am a pea-brained sycophant. I am okay with this. This has been a lesson to me about why I don’t read internet comment threads. For me, it’s back to reading a story about Batman punching a dude called THE FLAMINGO while a dude who might be the Devil plots against him from the shadows.

  63. A pseudo-intellectual jackhole named Chief Screaming Chicken harasses a comics blogger about a storyline in which an assassin with a gigantic skull on his chest is killed by Wolverine’s bemohawked spawn and turned into Frankenstein’s Monster With Guns.

    There’s your f***ing high concept right there.

    Chief Screaming Chicken: I think the reason Chris hasn’t responded seriously to your argument is because it is a Goddamn stupid argument that shouldn’t be dignified with a serious response, and because you are talking about THE GODDAMN PUNISHER in MARVEL GODDAMN COMICS as if he were PHILIP GODDAMN MARLOWE.

    Also: you are a dickbag.

  64. And apparently if you happen to agree with Sims, it’s obviously because you’re a sycophant, and not because you happen to have the same opinion as him. I’m sure everyone that disagrees with Screaming Chicken isn’t doing it because they actually disagree with him, but because they can’t think for themselves and need Sims or whomever to think for them. Good to know.

  65. Chris, help! Please tell me what to post! I’m not sure what to think anymore because I think Ive just read a spoiler that frankencastle’s not really made of the corpse of the punisher but rather straw? I mean what the fuck? What kind of high concept is that…

  66. Wait I just realised something, a dude who takes his screen name from a once off character from the old Batman series meant to parody the same actors, already comedic (in a racist way) character from F-troop is defending people’s right to believe that the punisher being turned into a monster is out of place for either/both the Marvel universe and the Character despite that whole thing about opinions only being of equal worth when the available evidence has been given equal credence in the forming of said opinions (ie: there is NO evidence AT ALL to suggest that `frankencastle’ is in ANYWAY out of place for EITHER the CHARACTER of the punisher nor the universe to which he belongs. There’s taste, sure, you can personally not like stories in which the punisher gets turned into Frankenstein- though your missing out- but taste and opinion are not the same and equal right is not the same as equal worth) and that’s frickin awesome. Man I love this blog.

  69. Not to change the subject, but…

    Are you reading Streets of Gotham solely for the Manhunter back-up, Chris?

  70. The ISB hive is the gift that keeps on giving. I’m only in the mood to devote time to one of you fine specimens of rational thought, let’s see, you with your finger up your nose over there. Not not you, the other one. You. No, the other other one, ffordesoon…

    Chief Screaming Chicken: I think the reason Chris hasn’t responded seriously to your argument is because it is a Goddamn stupid argument that shouldn’t be dignified with a serious response,

    Ya know, had he said something like that, that would have been the end of it. But what he does is respond to something I never said, which, like it or not, makes it a straw man. If you guys don’t like the term, then look the other way when a rational person attempts to correct Sims. My weakness is that I hope against hope to reach a rational person here and correct the straw men (well, now it’s just sport to me). He does indeed view opponents (but not necessarily the actual opposing opinion) worth responding to, but only up until the point where is straw men are exposed. And he’s got you conned into thinking he’s taking the high road.

    Rush has his dittoheads, but I think even he would be jealous of the ISB hive.

    and because you are talking about THE GODDAMN PUNISHER in MARVEL GODDAMN COMICS as if he were PHILIP GODDAMN MARLOWE.

    And here is the great intellect of the ISB on display. All I said about Frankencastle is that this is not the niche that the Punisher holds in the Marvel U. That is it. I repeat, that is it. Now if all you have to say about Philip Marlowe is one sentnce as simple as that, then the ISB is definitely where you belong.

    Once again, all I said about Frankencastle is that he does not belong in the Punisher’s niche. Not one word more have I said about Frankencastle. Is it getting through?

    You free-thinking, I_don’t-get-my-opinions-from-Chris, we-are-in-no-way-a-brainless-mob drones don’t have a clue how I would define that niche, but you all ran with Sims’ speculation-as-fact straw man. And you still pile on based on that straw man. Not one of you had the ounce of independent thought to say “Hold on, what is the niche you’re talking about?” Somehow all of your independent thought processes all lead you to the same straw man. What an interesting phenomenon.

  71. Look, you guys are to stop your slapfight over cartoon skull-chest man IMMEDIATELY or I am going to turn this car around RIGHT now and NO ONE is going to Disneyworld.

  72. Not one of you had the ounce of independent thought to say “Hold on, what is the niche you’re talking about?”

    For fuck’s sake, if you’re going to argue a point then state your argument. Don’t post “I disagree but I’ll only give you me reasons if you ask nicely.” What a douche.

  73. Not one of you had the ounce of independent thought to say “Hold on, what is the niche you’re talking about?”

    That’s because if you wanted to tell anyone what the niche you were thinking of is, you already would’ve done it in one of the eight comments you’ve made over the past twelve hours. Instead, you’re waiting for someone to ask so that you can feel even more clever than you already do for characterizing yourself as the lone voice of sanity in a world gone mad. The only thing you want more than someone begging for your opinion is for them to have that shining moment where–Oh my God!–they realize you were right all along and they should’ve listened to you when they had the chance!

    And you’re doing it here, rather than getting your own blog–which is free and reasonably simple–because the only way people will actually read it is if you piggyback on my comments section. Also, you appear to be getting paid every time you use the word “straw man.”

    When I went to sleep last night, I was almost sure you were a teenager, as you’ve got that special kind of me-against-the-world, if-I-use-big-words-and-complex-sentences-everyone-will-think-I’m-clever, I-just-learned-the-name-of-this-debate-technique-in-Civics-class way about you, but the Batman ’66 reference is throwing me, so I’m willing to consider the idea that you’re an older, more bearded troll.

    I imagine it’d make your little heart burst with pride to hear me say your name–well, your ridiculous handle–in the Big Ups segment of Ajax, but unfortunately we’re not recording next week and I’m sure I’ll have a better griefer than you by the time we get back to it.

    Also, I didn’t disagree with you because of some Internet-based rush to save face, I disagreed with you because you’re wrong and an idiot. This is my position, and darn it, I’m standing by it.

    And yes, I’m pretty much just reading Streets of Gotham for Manhunter. I really, really like Dustin Nguyen’s art, but brother, do I hate Man-Bat. A character like that has no place in the Core DC Universe.

  75. “All I said about Frankencastle is that this is not the niche that the Punisher holds in the Marvel U.”

    What you MEANT to say was, “I do not wish to see the character of Frank Castle handled in this manner, as it does not jibe with a handful of stories which I consider to be representative.”

    In point of fact, Sims is right: “The niche that the Punisher holds in the Marvel U[niverse]” is whatever Marvel pays somebody to make it from one month to the next until the character stops being popular, at which point he’ll until somebody can convince whoever’s running Marvel in the future they’ve got a great idea for a Punisher story, which may or may not be like any Punisher story ever told.

  77. You know, the timestamps make me wonder…

    does the crazy one sleep, or has he been staying up pressing the refresh button to see if people have responded to his comments?

  78. “incapable of conceding fuck-all” needs to be added to the “About” quotes, Chris.

    It’s tempting, but I try (half-heartedly) to keep the profanity in the template to a minimum. Maybe I should go with “In point of fact, Sims is right” instead?

  79. My favorite thing about this guy is how he continually played up that he was making a minor (and apparently indisputable) point about the Punisher, only to then defend it as if he were David Hume explaining the God paradox.

  81. I… was going to say I liked how Justin sued the term “dayenu.” But now I’ve read the whole section and I feel cold and alone in a silent, futile world.

  82. Used! Used, not sued the term.

    Also: what if the Punisher didn’t use guns? What if he… tickled people to death?? Would that be out of his niche?

  85. Sorry, I just don’t believe it. Chris Sims’ niche is talking about Batman and Herbie and Archie, not beating up obvious trolls. Try again, Remender, or whoever writes Sims these days.

  86. If they just just given us the Punisher leading a team consisting of Man-Thing, Werewolf By Night and Morbius, dayenu.

    Damn. Now I may have to buy this.

    Then again, I held off on the MZ4 series…. we’ll see.

  88. Also: what if the Punisher didn’t use guns? What if he… tickled people to death?? Would that be out of his niche?

    There was that issue of Power Pack where he spanked a dude, does that count?

  89. All this time I thought Chris was joking when he said comics are serious business.
    But wow, comics are serious business.

    Funny thing is, I always thought the Punisher was a pointlessly over the top character and wasn’t to be taken as seriously as my other childhood favorites, like U.S.1, Team America, Amethyst, and Crystar.

  90. “There was that issue of Power Pack where he spanked a dude, does that count?”

    That’s not what happened – the way you’ve described it, it sounds like something with a disturbing sexual undercurrent: the Punisher bent the half-naked guy over his knee while 5 year-old Katie Power did the spanking.

  93. To be fair to Chief Whinging Chiclet, the Philip Marlowe comparison WAS a crap example.

    “David Hume explaining the God paradox?” Much better.

    Just saying.

    *closes the door on this madness*

  95. “The ISB hive is the gift that keeps on giving.”

    Now there’s a quote for the side-bar.

  96. I like how a bunch of weird and whacky things Punisher did as the hard nosed, serious vigilante are justification for something happening to him that turns him into a cyborg zombie.

    Frankencastle is not out of place in the Marvel Universe, given… The concept of Frank being murdered by a D-list character so he can be made into a cyborg zombie by C-list characters to fight Gundams? Well, maybe it’s the Ennis fan that’s out of place for this particular story. Personally, just reading Punisher #11 had me going “what the what!??” when he was using Pym particles and guns that went “ZOT!!”

    It wasn’t “my” Punisher, so just like a Batman who allows his secret identity and HQ be discovered and allows himself to be drugged and hypnotized just so he can say “HA! I had this all figured out at the beginning!!” when he chases a washed up actor off a roof isn’t “my” Batman, I can say “…eh, maybe I’ll come back when this run is over.

    When you really look at it, all these stories are kind of like retribution for all the “Women in Refrigerators” stuff that’s happened over the years… Superheroines getting raped and depowered and killed and violated and twisted just to tell whatever story the writer felt like working toward at the time. They wanted to tell a story that didn’t fit in to the status quo, so they rape/pseudo-rape a character. This is just Remender raping Frank… no biggie. In a few months, he’ll just cry in the corner of the shower, all alone, then be back to normal.

  97. Just when I thought this thread couldn’t get worse, there’s rape jokes to put it all into perspective :(

  100. I like the idea that some characters can be Frankensteined and others can’t, like some form of artistic integrity apartheid.
    Could we have a list please?

  101. Sometimes I can’t believe that people fighting over Frankenstein adaptations is really part of the Core Actual Universe. It’s pretty awesome though.