It’s the last installment of Ask Chris, my Comics Culture Q&A Column before San Diego, and I mark the occasion by writing an article where I manage to talk about ADAM X THE X-TREME and Roy Lichtenstein!
As always, if you’ve got a question you want to see me tackle in a future column, put it on Twitter with the hashtag #askchris or email it to comicsalliance at gmail.com with the subject line [Ask Chris]!
Tim Burton’s Batman is the worst Batman adaptation ever? Really? Even worse than Batman and Robin?
Tim Burton set up the dominoes to fall that way. there wouldn’t be batman and Robin if Burton didn’t get it wrong first.
I’ve mentioned before that Batman and Robin is the best of those four movies.
Which should give you an idea of how much I dislike the other three.
I can see preferring Schumacher’s campy cartoonish version to Burton’s grim-n-gritty-but-never-read-the-comics films, but B&R better than Forever? That one’s just alien to me.
I hate Batman Forever. Seriously, if you can sit through more than like three minutes of Jim Carrey in that movie, you’re a better man than I am, and it’s basically like Val Kilmer was trying not to act.
Schwarzenegger and Thurman chew the hell out of some scenery, but Carrey… yeesh.
Also: “Dr. Chase Meridian.”
Batman and Robin was so bad I literally can’t sit through it. I’ll work on housecleaning before I watch that movie for any duration.
I do think Keaton was the best pre-Bale Bruce Wayne, though. Though I can understand why others don’t like the Burton films.
The appeal of Batman Forever is that you’re constantly wondering when Val Kilmer is going to eat a face.
Seriously, there is some Gary Busey-like fire behind those vapid expressions.
BATMAN AND ROBIN is bad, but it practically MySTs itself, and ends up falling into the “so bad it’s (almost) good category.”
For me, the only two things the Burton films have going for them is the dark and brooding production design. Post-1939, Batman doesn’t kill and certainly doesn’t mow assailants down with Batmobile-mounted machine guns and bombs. I just rewatched BATMAN RETURNS earlier in the week with my daughter, and to be honest, I find RETURNS to be a chore to get through.
I haven’t watched FOREVER in more than a decade. I don’t care much for Jim Carrey as a performer, but I remember liking FOREVER better than RETURNS and BATMAN AND ROBIN.
BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT hit at a point when I’m really down on the Hollywood blockbuster genre movie, so I really can’t comment. For what it’s worth, I’m partial to O’Neill/Adams BATMAN and the Timm/Dini Animated Series and I’ve never really warmed to Frank Miller-inspired takes on the mythos. (Blasphemy, I know.)
I’m actually with you on that. I think people learned the wrong lesson from Frank Miller’s work on Batman, just like they learned the wrong lesson from Watchmen and All-Star Superman.
The idea that B&R represents a watermark in bad cinema is bullshit – we live in a world of Bewitched remakes and movies starring Stuart Townesend.
Anyway, I have long stood by that opening sequence as being brilliant – ice-skating down a dinosaur to kick an evil hockey team in the face, then Arnie’s – oh sweet Jesus – ARNIE’S PUNS, followed by a rocketship deathtrap which Batman escapes by surfing a mid-air explosion on a door while chasing a jetpacking Mr Freeze. I like to be entertained when I watch a movie, you know?
But I see why many dislike it. It comes across like it’s not taking itself seriously, whereas the Burton flicks at least made the effort to bring a little grit to the story of a millionaire dressed dressed in black rubber and a gimp mask who drives around in a car with a giant cock on the bonnet beating people up.
Chris,
What’s the wrong lesson learned from All-Star Superman? Is that a dig at 701 or Superman Returns?
Just to be a bit pedantic, but Errol Flynn’s The Adventures of Robin Hood was in color, not black and white.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXHVDRgAFMk
What’s the wrong lesson learned from All-Star Superman? Is that a dig at 701 or Superman Returns?
Yes.
Just to be a bit pedantic, but Errol Flynn’s The Adventures of Robin Hood was in color, not black and white.
Huh! So it is. I thought it might be, but believe it or not, I actually looked it up. Must’ve misread.
Brigonos Chomhgaill–
The question at hand is what is the worst Batman related game, movie, etc.; trust me, I’ve seen the movie version of Land of the Lost so I know there are worse films out there (in fact, I’m pretty sure that the only Will Ferrell film I want to see is one where he is repeated bludgeoned by something metal with spikes).
After reading the comments, and upon further reflection, I have to say, yes, Batman and Robin isn’t horrible IF looked at as camp (and, I’d forgotten the Freeze Meister scene, which is actually kind of entertaining), though, as camp, the TV series and 60’s movie still beats it six ways from Sunday. I remember that I liked Batman Forever when it came out, but I saw it not too long ago and, wow, it has not aged well and, after The Dark Knight, Tommy Lee Jones’ Two-Face just looks ridiculous.
Of all the Batman movies, I like the first Burton Batman film the most. In fact, it might be my favorite movie ever. A lot of that is instinctive admiration that really can’t be quantified, but I will admit most of the appeal stems from 1. It’s to me the best spiritual representation of the Batman comics, even if the details aren’t right (which they’ve never been in any Batman film), 2. Jack Nicholson as the Joker is just plain awesome and endlessly watchable, and 3. the perfect soundtrack (yes, I am including both Danny Elfman and Prince).
Much as I dislike Kevin Smith, I really like his dig at Tim Burton in the beginning bits of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKbAEmvZyKQ
Seriously, Burton got Batman so VERY, VERY wrong.
Also: Sure kids could enjoy a comic over and over, that’s a given.
But some kids would remember a night at the movies for the rest of their lives. “The Mark of Zorro” springs to mind pretty readily…
Well done.
I hereby revoke your “Spamicus” status in honor of that comment.
I knew if i served long enough, performed with distinction, I could perhaps regain my honor.
Hey Chris, I don’t know if you’ve checked out DJ Schmolli’s mashup work yet, but if you haven’t, I think you might enjoy it. Then again, maybe not, mileage varies.
Robyn vs. AC/DC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAbUNFNLFE0
Falco vs. Sean Paul: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA4xI_MPx08
That’s the tip of the iceberg.
@Scott: I can state for the record that I did laugh at least once during Land of the Lost at a scene in which Ferrel was clearly visible, which officially makes it funnier than any movie with the name Wayans attached that doesn’t feature Bruce Willis.
RE: why comics don’t sell – in it’s native country, Manga seems to sell alright, and no-one’s ever accused the Japanese of not embracing new entertainment mediums like video games, so I wonder if there’s a case for distribution being a factor in low comic book sales as much as ‘distractions’ like Playstations and movies – although I freely admit a lifetime of watching pro wrestling heel turns signposted by ‘turning on the fans’ makes me naturally wary of any argument which hinges on “the fans/audience/consumer is to blame”.
Oh yeah, I’m a big fan of DJ Schmolli. Pretty much anyone who regularly gets featured on Best of Bootie has found a slot on my iPod.
Awesome.
Hi Chris.
Really enjoyed your thoughts on the decline of popularity of comics.
Just thought I’d recommend, (if you haven’t read it), Gerard Jones’ book ‘Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters, and the Birth of the Comic Book’ which has some fantastic information about those early days in the thirties, where Jewish communist radicals made deals with Organised Crime to launch them funnybooks we dig.
Lots of great stuff from the them dinosaur days all the way through which compliments your thinking.
There’s yet to be a Batman movie I’m really happy with. I actually completely agree that Batman and Robin might be the most watchable of the four original movies. In fact…Christ, I think I’ve watched it the MOST for some reason, which counts for something. As a kind of updating of ’60s TV Batman mixed with a bit of the darker production design, it works.
I’m not yet happy with the Nolan movies – they just don’t feel like Batman stories. The first one kind of almost did, a bit, but TDK really felt like another kind of movie and not a Batman movie, and Bale didn’t feel as much like Batman as he did in the first one.
11 year old me was so upset and offended by Batman 89, (why is Joker being so sleazy? Why is bruce wayne acting so weird/reclusive? It makes it too obvious that he’s batman! Why is Batman killing people and walking around like the terminator rather than diving in and out of the shadows like an awesome ninja?!) I remember straight up yelling at all my friends & class mates that they were idiots for liking it. I hated returns for similar reasons, and forever for similar ones and some other different ones (why is harvey dent ugly? why is riddler stupid? Why is this film so poorly made?) but B&R is just too dumb to hate, so Im with Chris; its my fav of the four too.
Angar’s first name is Angar
Actually, according to OHOTMU Deluxe, his full name is David Alan Angar. (First appearance: DAREDEVIL #100. Origin: DAREDEVIL #101.) Great column, though.
Really? Because according to the OHOTMU Super-Deluxe Corrected Edition, his name is “Angar Thelonius Screamer. (First Appearance HIPPIE TALES #21, Origin TALES OF APATHY #3).